I noticed on several occasions last weeks the following: someone marked as C (like me) is not only starting like crazy with 4 /kg or more, but continues to do 3.5w/kg until the end of the race. The end? No the last miles they slow down and finish with an avg w/kg of 3.2 However they build up a time advantage of 6 minutes on me (and my mates) so they still finish 1st in the race. I finish with 3.1 w/kg but 4 minutes behind them.
You can say that I shouldn't mind, but when I pick a race (and not a group ride) I want to do a fair race. I have now several ppl that I know in advance will beat me anytime. Am I imagining things or did ppl notice this also?
Petro wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:12 pm
I noticed on several occasions last weeks the following: someone marked as C (like me) is not only starting like crazy with 4 /kg or more, but continues to do 3.5w/kg until the end of the race. The end? No the last miles they slow down and finish with an avg w/kg of 3.2 However they build up a time advantage of 6 minutes on me (and my mates) so they still finish 1st in the race. I finish with 3.1 w/kg but 4 minutes behind them.
You can say that I shouldn't mind, but when I pick a race (and not a group ride) I want to do a fair race. I have now several ppl that I know in advance will beat me anytime. Am I imagining things or did ppl notice this also?
I would call that sandbagging
Average doesn't count. 95% of. best 20min effort in this race counts. Sandbagging is something different.
You can not heal 20min. 4W/kg with 2h 1W/kg. The 4W/kg count. So this is over 3,19W/kg category Limits.
I would call that sandbagging
I would call it racecraft.

I always start much harder than I can sustain for the whole race in the hope that I get pulled along for a few miles by some faster riders. I then get dropped and latch onto a slower group, which hopefully I can stick with until the end. In an ideal world I'd still have enough to give a dig or two in the last mile, but usually I'm flat out and can't attack, or getting dropped again.

The upshot is I get a faster time and a better VO2 workout than if I had just gone off at a steady pace and ridden at threshold.

Have you ever raced IRL? try riding an XC event and starting steadily and you will get blown straight out the back of the pack.
Matt Robinson wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:24 pm
I would call that sandbagging
I would call it racecraft.

I always start much harder than I can sustain for the whole race in the hope that I get pulled along for a few miles by some faster riders. I then get dropped and latch onto a slower group, which hopefully I can stick with until the end. In an ideal world I'd still have enough to give a dig or two in the last mile, but usually I'm flat out and can't attack, or getting dropped again.

The upshot is I get a faster time and a better VO2 workout than if I had just gone off at a steady pace and ridden at threshold.

Have you ever raced IRL? try riding an XC event and starting steadily and you will get blown straight out the back of the pack.
Agreed.
Matt Robinson wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:24 pm
I would call that sandbagging
I would call it racecraft.

I always start much harder than I can sustain for the whole race in the hope that I get pulled along for a few miles by some faster riders. I then get dropped and latch onto a slower group, which hopefully I can stick with until the end. In an ideal world I'd still have enough to give a dig or two in the last mile, but usually I'm flat out and can't attack, or getting dropped again.

The upshot is I get a faster time and a better VO2 workout than if I had just gone off at a steady pace and ridden at threshold.

Have you ever raced IRL? try riding an XC event and starting steadily and you will get blown straight out the back of the pack.
Well, I raced yesterday's kiss community league for example. The hardest part was the last third of the last lap of the race, where I could not hold the wheel of the lead group anymore. And in any race I had took part of, the last part was the hardest (except for perhaps the first 2 minutes of the race).
So I still think that if you finish your race cruising, you are racing below your actual category.
Some people might do that... but I’d prefer to be at the bottom of B category than the top of C cat.
Matt Robinson wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:24 pm
I would call that sandbagging
I would call it racecraft.

I always start much harder than I can sustain for the whole race in the hope that I get pulled along for a few miles by some faster riders. I then get dropped and latch onto a slower group, which hopefully I can stick with until the end. In an ideal world I'd still have enough to give a dig or two in the last mile, but usually I'm flat out and can't attack, or getting dropped again.

The upshot is I get a faster time and a better VO2 workout than if I had just gone off at a steady pace and ridden at threshold.

Have you ever raced IRL? try riding an XC event and starting steadily and you will get blown straight out the back of the pack.
Just checked your profile; so Matt now that you have been upgraded to B it is your opportunity to show us all you racecraft (i.e., wining a B race while at the same time cruising the last part of it).
Cheers.
The bottom line is that if 95% of their 20m power was 3.2 or more they should be DQ'd from the C group. If they were not DQ'd then they raced "legally". Further if they did race "legally" and won perhaps you need to look at how they did it. There may be something to learn from them.

If their best 95% of 20m power is below 3.2 and they simply give up positions at the end of the race by going slow... well that is not too smart.

My best 20m power is the start of the race... 1st 20 mins. I expect that is the norm. Then a small shorter spike at the end as there is a lead into and a final sprint. Still the 1st 20m are the higher power.