Questions, banter and general discussion.
Now that Zwift has been going strong since 2014 I wonder if it is time to reconsider the dirt bag status that has been assigned Z Power.
Initially, there were a lot of incorrect setups that resulted in falsely elevated W/KG and FTP's etc. I was among those that did not realize that an FTP of 300 watts (4 W/KG) was beyond my skill. I had no idea what a watt was. Many newbies fall into this same category but then from riding IRL with friends with power meters and riding with those same friends on Zwift, I realized there was an issue and this was addressed and now I am a mid-low pack (C) still using ZP. I can hang with my top (C) friends till the last 5-6 miles then I will red line and lose their wheel. Just like IRL.
I also borrowed other trainers to confirm my FTP was similar.
I think most people, when they realize their performance is not correct will seek to correct this.

Now, most riders are no longer using Z Power and people are still complaining about 5 W/KG for 1 hour.
Continuing to filter people for using Z power is not addressing the people who are the subject of most of the complaining posts.

Regardless of the input device, if someone wants to cheat, they will.
Maybe, instead of just banning all ZP, put a cap on W/KG unless some proof can be submitted similar to what is currently done with non ZP set ups.
Each year, more and more people take the steps to get accurate setups so we get a larger group of riders with realistic performances. Also every year, there are newbies who will make the same mistakes we did.
The cheaters will be there and we all know them when we see them because they don't realize how grossly they stand out.
there are still lots of incorrect setup and folk are still racing with them to remove the ban would be a mistake imo; until everyone is using a dd trainer (expensive) the problem will persist and those wishing to get an extra boost in watts (10 can make a big difference) even dd trainers are not bullet proof.
I have never banned zPower riders in ZHR events for that very reason. Most of the suspicious or deliberately cheating riders are marked as “Power” on ZwiftPower, when they have nothing of the sort.

Sure, it’s easier to be incorrectly setup, but there’s zero justification for a blanket ban.
If you’ve had a dodgy set up since 2014 splash the cash and get a new shiney toy! It’s 2019 you deserve it :D
Fozzzer wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:38 pm
If you’ve had a dodgy set up since 2014 splash the cash and get a new shiney toy! It’s 2019 you deserve it :D
That's the point I'm trying to make.

Why do you characterize my wheel on ZP dumb trainer as "dodgy"?
I have gone thru the steps to make it as accurate as possible. It produces results similar to real life.
If I get a new trainer, there will be a new learning curve during which my readings may be inaccurate.
Not all "non ZP" trainers are smart trainers. Not all "non ZP" trainers are direct drive.

The problem is not the equipment. It is the user.

Now granted, I'm sure there will be races where specific equipment will be required but still, they have to standardize the calibration process.
I'm ok with what I have.
The problem with zpower is they get addicted to it and think they are truly that strong..... i've seen people go from winning off the front on zpower in the A's, and get a true power source and finishing mid pack in the C's and D's. Iv'e been racing my whole life as a Cat 1, getting old, but still put in at least 250 miles a week on zwift and IRL.....a lot of zpower people get less than 50 miles a week??? If u want to race zpower, ZHR is your race, they allow it, but disconnect your power source and get on the dumb trainer to compete. If you are past level 25 and still on zpower,your the problem....get a smart trainer or power meter, don't cry the money blues to us....you've been shelling out $15 a month to be on zwift. Just my random thoughts, feels good to express them, not looking for any confrontation, but bring it if u must.
...and this proves Tim’s case even further.

News alert: “smart” trainers and “power” sources (in quotes, because they are not necessarily smart nor a power source) can be just as inaccurate.

Despite allowing zPower riders, almost all of the miscalibrated riders - deliberate or not - have been labelled as Smart/Power. 99% of DQs are from Smart/Power riders.

So drop the attitude, because it’s based on pseudo-science, just like the fasted training and low-carb nonsense
hmm can of worms time, the neo forum is full of folk going from other trainer to neo, the neo effect kicks in and they always ask if its broken as they have lost xx watts. Then there are those that use neos with other sources of power i will never understand why you buy the most accurate trainer on the market then use something else to gauge your power, usual BS is my trainer wants me to use same power both in an out. The change of trainer thread here is also awash with similar stuff and i know personally many guys who have upgraded from other trainer to neos and all of them have drop about 1 w per kg the worst being a 100 watt drop in ftp.
me personally my weight is accurate, i ride a neo and i use that as power, i know its accurate as it matches my duo p1 pedals watt for watt. i also have an inpower crank mono meter on my road which gives me a nice 25 watt boost used this on zwift to see what would happen i smashed my B race and kept with the A group, also used it on the GCN race took a whopping 2 mins of my epic kom and i wasnt going full beans. To add i asked sticky to remove my "cheating" results from my zwift power account which he did. The data is still there to see with an error code!
So gents where does zwift power and racing want to go does it want to be classed as a serious platform for racing or not, i for one wish for a serious platform! One big plus for me is that i will race outside this year something i have thought about but never had the ballz to do, this is down to racing on zwift at least in that i know i will be beat by better riders (unless they are on epo ha ha)

the above is just my take based on evidence that i have racked up over the year; as a scientist i base all my rational on facts and am not prone to biased thinking.
The ONLY way to have a serious race is to have it IRL - even on a Neo, it’s very easy to cheat with minimal IT knowledge, you don’t even have to be on the bike.

So, once we agree (after having had the same argument every year) that ANY trainer can be cheated, then we can finally move on to “does my trainer reflect what I can do IRL?”

It therefore doesn’t matter what trainer a rider has, so long as their outdoor data (Strava) can back up the numbers.
agree with that its reflection of human nature i feel, i have noted that many riders do not have a strava account and many that do are locked. Also loads dont seem to ride outside and only zwift so even then is hard to quantify, but yes outside data should match indoor but then you get folk moaning about indoor conditions being different to outside, temp bollox changes etc. again my indoor vs outdoor figures match nicely when i remove the 25 watts off my power meter. will use my new pedals come spring should be interesting but fully expect a match up!!